Premium User
Nbr post: 94
Register: 7/3/14
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Posted: 7/23/16, 4:50 PM
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So doing some research on live last week, I collected some data when killing skeletal soldiers in WK. The logging seemed to work ok, except for stacking items. When a skeleton had 2 or more bone chips, the kill count when up by 1, but the bone chip counts only went up by 1.
Can the code be changed to detect stacking items and count them correctly? I guess it depends on what you want the % number to mean, but if a mob has 2 short swords, you can get % over 100% so I would think we'd want the same for stacking items.
I, for one and I'm sure there are others, rely on magelo data for making my own loot tables and I'd love it to could all the drops when its stacking. Spider silk, etc. data is dropping now, since they changed loot to stack. The % are getting lower and lower since when it does drop it looks like only 1.
noudess
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Registered User
Nbr post: 58
Register: 2/12/09
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Posted: 7/24/16, 8:48 AM
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You're thinking about this wrong, the % is the chance to find said item, not how many will be present...
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Premium User
Nbr post: 94
Register: 7/3/14
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Posted: 7/24/16, 11:14 AM
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I completely understand that is one interpretation. I run my own server and I look at these numbers a ton. Historically, that is NOT how magelo data worked.
I am saying that:
1) In the past, before items in the loot window stacked, the % reflected the total count. Now it does not.
2) Even today, if you get 2 identical short swords of a duel wield mob, the % reflects 2 not 1 (as I said in teh 1st post if you bothered to read and understand before spouting off).
3) Only when an item stacks, does the % show only 1.
I would think that spiders that consistently drop 3-4 silks should be indicated somehow as a better source than spiders that routinely drop 1.
I believe that the intent of the % was to measure every drop. Look around magelo. Some items % number is ABOVE 100%. That is because non-stacked items counted twice. I think this is way more valuable than tracking multiple drops as 1. If you kill a mob 6 times, and you get 2 drops, 0 drops, 0 drops, 0 drops, 0 drops and 1 drop, the % should be 50% (or 3 drops per 6 kills). That is far more useful than having it say 33%. AND it is what magelo did before items in the loot window started stacking.
Of course, BOTH #s are valuable and we could track both. But if not, what is happening now is it is MIXING the old method (what I am pushing) and the new method (which is just a side effect of the stacking loot).
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Registered User
Nbr post: 58
Register: 2/12/09
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Posted: 7/25/16, 7:36 AM
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You're right, I did misread your text, but I usually look at the % how often it shows more than how many I get as I'm usually looking for rarer items...
As for the current difficulty, it may reflect some changes on how the info is presented (or interpreted, or both)...
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Admin
Nbr post: 11406
Register: 5/4/01
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Posted: 7/29/16, 3:33 AM
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Hi, the stacking count should not impact the drop rate at all. It should only reflect that if it drops, it might drop as many as the max observable count.
I did not change any logic in that regard and I will double check that we still do observe properly the stack count when you use adv loot system.
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Premium User
Nbr post: 94
Register: 7/3/14
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Posted: 7/29/16, 9:07 PM
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My point was , EQ used to not stack loot in the window. So if you got 4 bone chips, 4 got recorded by magelo tools. If you get 2 short swords from 1 mob, magelo still records 2 drops from 1 mob, since those dont stack, But, since EQ now (last several years) stacks drops like bone chips, spider silks, etc.. Magelo now tracks multiple drops as 1.
Since magelo does not track average # of an item per mob, I prefer that 2 drops count as 2, since then I get some data out of it.
Obviously your call on what you want your numbers to mean, but right now they are a merger of the old way and the newer (since loot started stacking) way.
**Oh, and I mean the normal loot system in my tests**. Only 1 counts for the %. Are you saying the count is reflected elsewhere??
I like to use magelo for my drop rates on my server. In that regard, counting the extra drops in the % gives me a way to guestimate a better # for max drops.
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Admin
Nbr post: 11406
Register: 5/4/01
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Posted: 8/26/16, 9:21 AM
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H Drool
My point was , EQ used to not stack loot in the window. So if you got 4 bone chips, 4 got recorded by magelo tools.
This is not how it works, for a given corpse, a given item can only be reported a single time. If that was not the case at some point, it was a bug and was fixed since then.
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Premium User
Nbr post: 94
Register: 7/3/14
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Posted: 8/29/16, 12:34 PM
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Kill a mob with 2 items that don't stack. It reports twice. That's why the db has items with drop rates over 100%.
II want to use the percentages for an eqemu server. If the % if how often at least one drops (as you say), then its not very useful for tmy purposes. What I need is how many spider silks do I get from 100 kills. If 100 kills on live gets me 40 silks (where half of them were stacked) your percentage will read 20%. I think 40% is a much better #.
All that said, I can't see any reason why magelo could not provide both counts:
total kills, total # of silks dropped, % of kills where at least one dropped.
It would be very very useful.
Obviously up to you.
I still want to help provide some sort of help finding out why the client doesnt pick up all the kills/drops as well. Ran the client last night, killed about 40 mobs - the client say like 3 of the kills. I was using advanced loot. The logs were clean - no errors. I'll post more about this is a new thread and offer any help I can in figuring this out. I want to help contribute as much as I can to data collection.
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