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Messages in topic: Round table - Class key spells
Ishaar
Advisor

Nbr post: 449
Register: 5/6/01
Posted: 11/27/06, 12:57 PM

Several players have asked us to provide a way to display through a profile certain spells owned by a character, named for the purpose class key spells. A class key spells is a spell that is mostly obtained from quests or drops. It’s defined as key because of the contribution/perk it brings to the class.

Well, you asked for it, you have it. This new feature will be released on the forthcoming update. However we still need to list and sort all spells that can be defined as key for all spell casting classes. So we’re looking for a few scholars to help us in scribing the rights spells, hence this round table ;)

Thanks for your contribution!


Every man dies. Not every man really lives.
Nilbus
Registered User

Nbr post: 98
Register: 11/12/01
Posted: 11/27/06, 2:44 PM

Do you want the suggestions here or will there be another thread?

[Nilbus Oberlovyn|http:\\eq.magelo.com\profile\246758]
Master Tinkerer and Primal Elementalist - Tunare
Minadin
Registered User

Nbr post: 69
Register: 1/18/03
Posted: 11/27/06, 5:11 PM

Just in case you want it here:

Druids:

-Level 75:
[ ] Blessing of the Direwild Rk. II / III
-Level 72:
[ ] Direwild Skin Rk. II / III
-Level 70:
[ ] Dawnstrike
[ ] Moonshadow
[ ] Ancient: Chlorobon
[ ] Ancient: Glacier Frost
-Level 68:
[ ] Skin of the Reptile
-Level 54:
[ ] Remove Greater Curse
-Level 52:
[ ] Pure Blood


Others will probably want to include more, but off the top of my head, those are the most important ones to me as a raiding druid.

Ishaar
Advisor

Nbr post: 449
Register: 5/6/01
Posted: 11/27/06, 5:18 PM

Ah, we might as well put them here
Thanks.


Every man dies. Not every man really lives.
Aldius
Registered User

Nbr post: 118
Register: 11/16/01
Posted: 11/27/06, 8:44 PM

Enchanters:

Level 75
Voice of Intuition Rk. II/III
Hastening of Elowind Rk. II/III

Level 74
Legion of Alendar Rk. II/III

Level 73
Seer's Intuition Rk. II/III
Polychromatic Assault Rk. II/III

Level 72
Echo of Tashan Rk. II
Bewilderment Rk. II/III
Speed of Ellowind Rk. II/III

Level 71
Fractured Consciousness Rk. II
Illusion Drakkin of Draton'ra

Level 70
Ancient Neurosis
Ancient Voice of Muram
Hastening of Salik
Illusionist's Aura
Mana Flare
Voice of Clairvoyance
Ward of Bedazzlement

Level 69
Colored Chaos
Rune of Rikkukin

I guess you could include all 60-70 spells for this, since they're all quested... But these are the important ones. From 69+


Ishaar
Advisor

Nbr post: 449
Register: 5/6/01
Posted: 11/27/06, 9:40 PM

True, but maybe not all quested spells are really improving a class role in a raid/group environment. Say I'm a guild or raid leader, what spells I would like members of a certain class to have? Or as a representative of that class, what spells do I think really helps me get my job done?

The goal is not to list as many spells as possible, but as you pointed out, what are the most essential/useful to have.


Every man dies. Not every man really lives.
TobermoryTo
Registered User

Nbr post: 43
Register: 1/3/03
Posted: 11/28/06, 9:53 AM

Bards ....

All 71 - 75 are purchasable at Rk1. Some Rk2+ are very nice to have, but that would make the list very long. Perhaps though the possible Rk 3 spells for ALL classes should be listed, to give some idea of runes required?

Bards use almost everything they have available (except lower versions of the same line - and even then there are certain exceptions), depending on group makeup. But a few abilities never really get used, and some songs are highly situational.

The following are the 'useful' TSS songs (ie. are required at at least Rk1 - not an issue as all purchasable, and thus all bards at 75 may be expected to own them). All exist at Rk2, I think (and some of these are significant upgrades), and the full order for Rk3 has not yet been discovered (?). This list includes all except two (and those two still have rare situational uses over their "upgraded" and included equivalents), simply becasue bards obtained a lot of new functionallity with TSS.

Denon's Dirge of Destruction (75)
Staccato Rhythms (75)
Veshma's Lively Crescendo (75)
Beckon of the Tuffien (75)
Minohten's Purifying Panpipes (74)
Queen Eletyl's Screech (74)
Erollisi's Chorus (73)
Fermata of Preservation (73)
Performer's Psalm of Pyrotechnics (73)
Ervaj's Defensive Refrain (72)
Song of the Dryads (72)
Weshlu's Chillsong Aria (72)
Whispersong of Veshma (71)

The following Bard songs are either quested or 'rare' runes/drops and are regularly required at 75 :

Arcane Aria (70)
Ancient Call of Power (70)
Aura of the Muse (70) - aura
Storm Blade (70)
Thousand Blades (70) - disc
Creeping Dreams (70)
Ancient Chaos Chant (65)
Ancient Lullaby of Shadow (60) - only as a PvP tool.
Aria of Innocence (52)
Aria of Asceticism (45)

In addition, the following Bard songs are obtained via regular non-TSS rune hand-ins, or are from LDoN, or are drop-only, and are situationally useful (and thus required, despite there being quite a few - bards live by their tricks) at 75. None are particularly difficult to obtain these days, even though none can be purchased from npcs..

Vulka's Chant of Flame (70)
Vulka's Chant of Poison (68)
War March of Muram (68)
Angstilch's Wail of Panic (67)
Vulka's Chant of Frost (67)
Zuriki's Song of Shenanigans (67)
Vulka's Chant of Disease (66)
Bellow of Chaos (66)
Harmony of Sound (65)
Requiem of Time (64)
Psalm of Veeshan (63)
Druzzil's Disillusionment (62)
Silent Song of Quelious (61)
Composition of Ervaj (60)
Ervaj's Lost Composition (60)
Fufil's Diminishing Dirge (60)
Kazumi's Note of Preservation (60)

Bards will use a lot more songs than this, but the rest are lower level and may therefore be purchased from npcs; everyone may be assumed to own them (and if not, why not?!).

And, to clarify ....

Quote : The goal is not to list as many spells as possible, but as you pointed out, what are the most essential/useful to have

With perhaps five exceptions, no serious raid guild would consider any bard missing any of the above : ALL are useful unique effects, and bards are a utility class.
calliopeia
Registered User

Nbr post: 60
Register: 7/4/02
Posted: 11/28/06, 11:51 AM

I agree with most of Tobermory's list, but I would definitely want to see some of the Rank II and III spells listed.
I'd add:

Rank III
Weshlu's Chillsong Aria Rk. III (level 72)
Performer's Psalm of Pyrotechnics Rk. III (level 73)
Erollsi's Chorus Rk. III (level 73)
Minohten's Purifying Panpipes Rk. III (level 74)
Staccato Rhythms Rk. III (level 75)
Veshma's Lively Crescendo Rk. III (level 75)

Erollisi's Cantata and Denon's Dirge are also Rank III bard songs, but I don't think they're worth listing. Denon's is too situational, and in the situations where it would be used, the Rank II is fine.

Rank II
Song of the Dryads Rk. II (level 72)
Ervaj's Defensive Refrain Rk. II (level 72)
Queen Eletyl's Screech Rk. II (level 74)

Possibly:
Aelfric's Last Lullaby Rk. II (but once you get the 74 mez, you won't use this one)
Erollisi's Chorus Rk. II (but once you get Rk III, this one is unnecessary)

From Tobermory's list, I don't think Ancient Call of Power is worthwhile at level 75 because of it's spell level cap.
calliopeia
Registered User

Nbr post: 60
Register: 7/4/02
Posted: 11/28/06, 11:53 AM

Out of curiosity, why not list all spells that are quested/dropped like Magelo I did?

Calli
Jelan
Admin

Nbr post: 11348
Register: 5/4/01
Posted: 11/28/06, 12:20 PM

The main idea is to show usefull spell information, if you include all quested/dropped spells, you end up with a pretty huge list (Flags anyone....) which is not very friendly and hard to digest.
TobermoryTo
Registered User

Nbr post: 43
Register: 1/3/03
Posted: 11/28/06, 12:41 PM

Quote : From Tobermory's list, I don't think Ancient Call of Power is worthwhile at level 75 because of it's spell level cap.

I included it becasue of its increased range over the aura. Generally, if in a melee group and there are a couple of other bards in the raid, I'll use CoP over aura simply because of the increased range. The overhaste component is, afterall, the same for both CoP and aura. Also, if pulling, I'd use CoP instead of aura simply because fade drops aura. I'd definitely be a lesser bard if I lacked CoP despite having aura.

I do think its important that ALL possible rank three TSS spells are listed, irespective of usefulness, because RL/GL will want to keep track of who has what spells and therefoire who 'needs' the runes.

Quote : Aelfric's Last Lullaby Rk. II (but once you get the 74 mez, you won't use this one)

Useful for the push effect. Not convinced I'd ever give it a slot ... except perhaps if on bat mez duty in demi? hmmm.

Quote : if you include all quested/dropped spells, you end up with a pretty huge list

Just a thought. Why not have a split list, 'key spells' (defined by consensus) and 'the rest' ? Lots of people like full books, even if they almost never use the spell. Think of chanters and their imbue lines, for example : Lets say they miss Imbue: Fire ... they might never use the spell, but if they have earth/air/water then they might consider filling in the gap. Perhaps people running armies of alts will want to see at a glance what they miss, so they can pick things up? /shrug

Also, of course, by having key spells listed it would go a long way to educating guild officers who might not know a given class well enough to realise what is truly needed. Certainly, for bards, class ignorance can be a real problem when those who dont know the class start to make judgements based upon often faulty information. Cant be bad for Magelo either, if guilds were to simply specify "All spells listed as key spells in Magelo", rather than the current norm of specifying (often outdated) lists.
Nilbus
Registered User

Nbr post: 98
Register: 11/12/01
Posted: 11/28/06, 1:39 PM

Magicians:

None Rk Based spells

Level 73 - Summon Elemental Armaments
Level 71 - Summon Plate of the Elements, Summon Muzzle of Mowcha
Level 70 - Raging Servant, Iceflame Guard, Rathe's Strength
Level 69 - Summon: Molten Orb
Level 61 - Summon: Lava Orb
Level 55 - Earthen Strength

Rk 2/3 Spells

Level 71 - Bolt of Molten Slag 2/3, Malosinise 2/3
Level 72 - Shock of Silvered Steel 2/3, Phantasmal Warden 2/3
Level 73 - Scorching Skin 2/3, Renewal of Aenda 2/3, Granite Stance 2/3
Level 74 - Aegis of Calliav 2/3
Level 75 - Fickle Inferno 2/3, Elemental Symbiosis 2/3

[Nilbus Oberlovyn|http:\\eq.magelo.com\profile\246758]
Master Tinkerer and Primal Elementalist - Tunare
Dyfrin Deathseeker
Registered User

Nbr post: 91
Register: 10/31/01
Posted: 11/28/06, 2:17 PM

BardClericShamanPaladin
|Ancient Chaos Chant|Divine Intervention|Pure Blood|Brell's Stony Guard3
|Aura of the Muse|Buff rk3s|buffs rk3|Challange for Honor3
|Ervaj's Lost Composition|Heals rk3|heals rk3|Armor of the Unrelenting3
|rk3 of pyro/chill/refrain/dryad/chorus|misc/dd rk3|misc rk3|heals/stuns rk3

Those are raid changing.

Aria of In/Asc ( LoY songs) stormblade, disc,aria of arcane who cares, its bard responsibility not the guilds, its group missions.
ancient oow/dodh is = to aura, while range increase to me isn't important takes up a twist spot, have passed multiple times on it.

Guilds need to see raid rune needs, not individuals slacking.
Having guild leader/raid leader micromanage everyones aa's spells/etc is wasting time, so why put it on all magelos?
List all rk3 and whatever people pick is important from previous that guilds would need to know about. rk2's are bazaar junk and groupable, a persons own responsibility.


[Dyfrin|javascript:channelProfile("eq",26510)]
Half-Elf Lyricist
SolSon44
Registered User

Nbr post: 4
Register: 5/14/02
Posted: 11/28/06, 5:55 PM

Key Spells for Rangers:

Earthen Shackles: Level 69 Chromatic Snare from DoN Tier2 Completion
Nature's Balance: Beneficial Debuff from Greater Rune's.
Eldaar's Grasp: Chromatic Root + Minor Knockback gotten from Skylance Arc.
Snarl of the Predator Rk2/Rk3: Attack and Double Attack Buff Level 73
Strength of the Forest Stalker Rk2/Rk3: Attack/HP Buff Level 72
Potameid Salve any rank: Cures 9 counters of each type and a heal of about 700ish Level 73
Hail of Arrows: Crazy DPS =) 68 DoDH arc
Jolting Kicks Rk2/Rk3: Double kick with Hate reduction unresistable.
Guard of Earth: AC/DS Buff gotten from Lesser or Minor Runes (it has slipped my mind which Rune is level for level 67 spells)


That I think covers it for Ranger Key spells. Those are the ones i have up usually every raid with the exception of the buffs which get rotated depending on demand and the event.
Keileen
Registered User

Nbr post: 4
Register: 6/10/04
Posted: 11/28/06, 7:52 PM

For the most part, I agree with Dyfrin that primarily listing the raid spells (rk. iii) would be most worthwhile, but some lower level spells are also "key". Additionally, Magelo is used by many players - including guilds whose membership is sub-level 70. I suspect that some guilds assist their members in obtaining "key" spells including using guild money to buy them in the bazaar or buy runes. While some may view getting your spells as your own responsibility - other guilds or groups of players might approach collecting spells from a group-effort perspective. So for these lower-level guilds, a "key" spell for them might very well be something like Focus of the Seventh.

For shaman, "key" spells should include:
Blood of Nadox (Dyfrin lists this under "Pure Blood" but it's called Blood of Nadox for Shaman).
Remove Greater Curse
Spirit of the Panther (Level 69, questable from DoN Progression Tier 2)
Ghost of Renewal (Level 70 "questable" spell, group HoT, the ONLY group HoT spell shaman get).

And although the level 68 DoDh spell Lingering Sloth is the most important, I would include the other 2 DoDh "quest" spells for shaman for completeness & also because they are unique:
***Lingering Sloth (DoDh 68 Arc, the only spell of it's kind - it is a buff that procs a slow.)
Breath of Antraygus (DoDh 69 Arc)
Hungry Plague (DoDh 70 Arc) - "viral" slow

That's all that comes to mind at the moment.
Thank you for the opportunity to participate in this discussion. I hope you find my comments useful.

Keileen Thundarrbut, Level 75 Shaman, Hand of Ka, Prexus